laurus_nobilis | this happens to every nice character in every fandom ever

So, Transformers fandom, where did you get the idea that Skyfire is a doormat? Because, while I can't deny that G1 is not precisely made of wonderful 3D character development and there's a lot of filling-in-the-blanks to do in Fanfic Land, it's not that hard to miss that his whole intro episode is about him getting in trouble for not being a doormat.

But noooo, he's calm and gentle, so of course that must mean he takes any kind of abuse without so much as defending himself, and is completely incapable of saying "no" to anyone, and is such a pushover that he does anything he's told to. You know, like shooting those Auto- OH WAIT.

Seriously, fandom. In 25 minutes the guy gets in trouble with Megatron for "overstepping his authority" (!), gets shot for refusing to kill people and generally be a bad guy just because his Bestest Friends says so, and then proceeds to fight back said ex-friend as soon as he's repaired enough to do so. He's not a pushover! And, again, G1 is hardly the land of subtle hints. I'm not asking you to read between the lines, here.

... but yeah, look at the subject. I don't even know why I'm surprised anymore. Showing basic politenes = being a doormat, obviously.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

.......but why. No, I don't really want to know, do I? I mean, I've seen that episode and there's nothing of that.

I have no idea! And it's not like he becomes a pushover later, either. Sure, he drives people around, but all taxi jokes aside it's not that different from all the other 35416827 G1 characters who only show up when their ~special quirk~ is needed ~~to sell toys~~ for plot reasons.

So yeah. No clue.

Hm, do you think it falls under crying "not manly enough!" (http://community.livejournal.com/hated_character/tag/crying%20%22not%20manly%20enough%21%22)?

I think I prefer the characters who act polite and "soft" and hide steel underneath that. They'd probably make some of the best RL friends, too.

Oooh, good point. I don't think it's exactly that, because these aren't people who bash him or even dislike him (it reminds me a bit of some versions of fanon!Remus where he loses his spine), but there's definitely a factor of "he's kind and friendly and preferes not to fight, therefore he's a naive pushover" there.

And he's too minor to be hated, really, but the few people I've found who dislike him give him the Lily Potter treatment: he betrayed Starscream first! He should have put his loyalty to his friend before such little things like, y'know, a conscience! No wonder poor woobie Starscream shot him! *rolls eyes* (Mind you, it's perfectly IC for Starscream to think that way so it has its place in fic, but... in discussions? Yeah, not so much.)

... I need to stop comparing everything to the HP fandom, I think. XD On the other hand, at least there are no Decepticons with wives in the Astral Plane! Yay!

He's not getting the Lily Potter treatment unless there are people saying it was his ~*~duty~*~ as the ~~girl~~ sensitive one to chaaaange poor misguided Starscream, no matter what was thrown at him, as well as bemoaning All Girls Want Bad Boys. Do fans say that Skyfire is completely at fault for forcing Starscream to join the Decepticons?

Well, yeah, I don't think anyone quite gets the Lily treatment because, even if woobiefication happens in every fandom, Snapefen are really REALLY special about it. DX I have seen the idea that if he'd stuck around he could have made Starscream see the light because he's just a poor woobie who can't escape Megatron's influence, which... ahahahaha no. Starscream is perfectly happy being a bad guy, fandom.

Do fans say that Skyfire is completely at fault for forcing Starscream to join the Decepticons?
... sort of? Bit of backstory, since you haven't seen G1: Once Upon A Time before the war, they were both good guys, and they traveled around space doing research and exploring. During one of these trips Skyfire crashed on Earth, Starscream did his best to find him but eventually ended up believing he was dead. At some point in the nine million years that passed until the 'Cons accidentally find Skyfire on Earth (and with no idea there's even a war going on, poor guy), Starscream turned into a bad guy and joined the Decepticons. G1 being an '80s cartoon and all, it's pretty bad with backstory, so we have no idea of how or why that happened. Starscream himself says it's much more exciting than being a scientist and while he's not exactly trustworthy, he had no reason to lie about it at the time. And we know he doesn't exactly angst about his choices, anyway.

Cue certain sectors of fandom saying that losing Skyfire singlehandedly turned poor, sweet Starscream into a Jerkass Woobie. (I've even seen fic where Skyfire himself feels responsible for "not being there for him" or something. Ugh ugh ugh way to kill his personality guys. DX) Anyway. Apart from sucking out all of the fun in Starscream's character, you know why this theory bothers me? TFA!Sentinel, that's why. I don't say anyone saying "But he lost Elita! No wonder the poor woobie is a jerk!" And Sentinel, at least, is a jerk who didn't join the Decepticons.

... and I'm starting to sound like I hate Starscream. XD I obviously don't! Just certain sectors of fandom, really. At least there are also lots of people who like him for the unredeemable, hilarious loser he is.

But yeah, it's not that there isn't any good fic about Skyfire or Starscream/Skyfire, I've found that kind too. But there are so many people who apparently like him and yet turn him into a doormat. Gaah.

this happens to every nice character in every fandom ever

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

wow, I really get tl;dr about these two