Laurus Nobilis (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
laurus_nobilis) wrote2007-11-04 10:10 am
laurus_nobilis) wrote2007-11-04 10:10 am
I don't get you sometimes, fandom
Yes, I know I should be writing instead of reading Harry Potter forums. I guess I deserved the headache, although I didn't think I'd find many reasons to headdesk in a sane place like the Sugar Quill. But the way HP fandom treats villains creeps me out.
Before I begin, and just to be perfectly clear: I don't think there's anything wrong with liking the villains. Just because I tend to prefer the good guys doesn't mean I can't understand that people like the bad guys, especially because there are some really fascinating bad guys out there (though I'm not very fond of any of the HP ones). The thing is, most people who like villains like them because they're villains. Most people who like rival pairings like them because there's a lot of tension in the mix of love/attraction and opposite views. Or views that are just beginning to show they're opposite, depending on the timeline, but the point remains.
And then there are people who insist that the bad guys aren't really that bad, and make me wonder why don't they just go fangirl the good guys instead of justifying characters who are obviously batshit.
The Grindelwald thread is one scary place because of how it subtly changes along the way. (Appropriate, I guess, but still creepy.)
First there's a perfectly innocent discussion about Grindelwald vs. Voldemort and which one was worse. I agree completely that Voldie was even worse. They both were genocidal maniacs and they both were evil since they were young, yes, but Grindelwald kinda sorta repented a teensy little bit in the end while Voldie refused to do it. And there was the whole thing about splitting his soul in many little pieces. Even from a purely narrative point of view, it makes sense that the new threat is worse than the old threat.
So far so good. But then it starts getting creepy when people begin talking about the era's general views, and how it was understandable that he'd believe in wizards' superiority. Understandable? Maybe. Justifiable? Hell NO. Dumbledore had the same views as him, they say, and it's true.
It'd be nice if they also remembered that Dumbledore stopped himself from turning into an evil dictator and Grindelwald didn't even try.
But he's still not entirely evil! He isn't doing it because he enjoys being evil: even if his acts are terrible, he's still convinced that it's all for the Greater Good.
... uh, guys? That doesn't make him less evil. That makes him FUCKING BATSHIT.
Oh, but wait, it gets better. While people spend all their time arguing about the political side of his acts, and how he got his views, and the influence of the times he lived in... no one seems to remember the little details that no amount of context can justify or even explain.
I guess I imagined that bit where a school with a reputation for teaching the Dark Arts didn't want him anymore.
Or the unimportant, throwaway scene when 16-year-old ickle Gellert uses the Cruciatus Curse on a young teen. And not just any kid, either. We're talking about his boyfriend's little brother here.
Yeah, that was totally for the Greater Good.
Seriously, fandom. Think about it for a moment. Dumbledore was a teenage idiot in love and still managed to realize he was dangerous and insane - why can't the readers do it?
Aaaargh. It's CoS and Tom Riddle all over again. "He was just a misunderstood woobie!" Yeah, a misunderstood woobie who killed a little girl in cold blood when he was sixteen, but I guess that was okay because Myrtle was annoying anyway. But mostly because the only bit of CoS that stuck to some people's brains was HE WAS SOOO HOT.
ETA: I remembered I'd promised I'd keep meta-ish posts public. Oops. It's unlocked now.
Before I begin, and just to be perfectly clear: I don't think there's anything wrong with liking the villains. Just because I tend to prefer the good guys doesn't mean I can't understand that people like the bad guys, especially because there are some really fascinating bad guys out there (though I'm not very fond of any of the HP ones). The thing is, most people who like villains like them because they're villains. Most people who like rival pairings like them because there's a lot of tension in the mix of love/attraction and opposite views. Or views that are just beginning to show they're opposite, depending on the timeline, but the point remains.
And then there are people who insist that the bad guys aren't really that bad, and make me wonder why don't they just go fangirl the good guys instead of justifying characters who are obviously batshit.
The Grindelwald thread is one scary place because of how it subtly changes along the way. (Appropriate, I guess, but still creepy.)
First there's a perfectly innocent discussion about Grindelwald vs. Voldemort and which one was worse. I agree completely that Voldie was even worse. They both were genocidal maniacs and they both were evil since they were young, yes, but Grindelwald kinda sorta repented a teensy little bit in the end while Voldie refused to do it. And there was the whole thing about splitting his soul in many little pieces. Even from a purely narrative point of view, it makes sense that the new threat is worse than the old threat.
So far so good. But then it starts getting creepy when people begin talking about the era's general views, and how it was understandable that he'd believe in wizards' superiority. Understandable? Maybe. Justifiable? Hell NO. Dumbledore had the same views as him, they say, and it's true.
It'd be nice if they also remembered that Dumbledore stopped himself from turning into an evil dictator and Grindelwald didn't even try.
But he's still not entirely evil! He isn't doing it because he enjoys being evil: even if his acts are terrible, he's still convinced that it's all for the Greater Good.
... uh, guys? That doesn't make him less evil. That makes him FUCKING BATSHIT.
Oh, but wait, it gets better. While people spend all their time arguing about the political side of his acts, and how he got his views, and the influence of the times he lived in... no one seems to remember the little details that no amount of context can justify or even explain.
I guess I imagined that bit where a school with a reputation for teaching the Dark Arts didn't want him anymore.
Or the unimportant, throwaway scene when 16-year-old ickle Gellert uses the Cruciatus Curse on a young teen. And not just any kid, either. We're talking about his boyfriend's little brother here.
Yeah, that was totally for the Greater Good.
Seriously, fandom. Think about it for a moment. Dumbledore was a teenage idiot in love and still managed to realize he was dangerous and insane - why can't the readers do it?
Aaaargh. It's CoS and Tom Riddle all over again. "He was just a misunderstood woobie!" Yeah, a misunderstood woobie who killed a little girl in cold blood when he was sixteen, but I guess that was okay because Myrtle was annoying anyway. But mostly because the only bit of CoS that stuck to some people's brains was HE WAS SOOO HOT.
ETA: I remembered I'd promised I'd keep meta-ish posts public. Oops. It's unlocked now.
no subject
no subject
I'd be interesting to watch/read the series again now, I think. I know what appealed to me about it back then - other than the obvious: pretty boys, angst, ridiculously detailed artwork - was the characters and how they don't entirely comply to your average yaoi stereotypes (which I always found bizarre and a little horrifying because I read slash to escape traditional fixed gender roles, thankyouverymuch). If anything, I used to refer to Tsuzuki and Hisoka as the "dead, gay Mulder and Scully". XD
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I eended up more interested in the X Files angle than in the yaoi one. XP But I really liked thw mixture: GORE! FANSERVICE! FLOWERS! GORE!
It was a rollercoaster. XP
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Did you watch the series or read the manga? And please tell me you got to the Kyoto arc because that is the best the series has to offer, I think, both visually and in terms of characterization.
*wants a Hisoka icon now*
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I read the manga and nope, didn't get there.*is a bad fan*
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The manga looks its best during the Kyoto arc - it honestly took my breath away just how GOOD it got there. Genuinely spooky, very atmospheric, gorgeous backgrounds, and the boys were as pretty as ever, though no longer fragile looking and awkwardly posed. But if you want plotting that (almost) makes sense, you should watch the anime - I really recommend it, the character design is quite nice, the atmosphere's nicely gothic and they got rid of most of the silly filler and went straight for the gore (and the gay XD)
And I am happy to say everybody has fabulous hair and angsts quite beautifully, just as they should. XD *plugs*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9a8ZnJT8wc
no subject
I've seen the first anime episodes, actually. I just lever finished either. XDDD